Karen：We have known each other for four years. From the first works I saw through to these new pieces in 2012, you have travelled a far-reaching road. During this journey, you have participated in a number of exhibitions, and on each occasion the style of your work has differed quite considerably. So first, I’d like to understand what it is that painting means to you: what do you pursue through it?
Bi：It has been undergoing a change from begining to now. From the theme to the technical detail, then to the understanding of painting, the change was little by little. Sometimes this looks like jumping in between, but in fact, all the attempts have meanings for me.It’s not something for which you can have a clear goal. You can describe it as work. It can also be like eating or drinking water.
Karen: Do you mean in terms of the content that interests you or the act of painting itself?
Bi：Initially, I will be more focused on content, but then as when painting begins my focus becomes about painting itself. The balance of these two points is always very subtle, and is always interpenetrated.
Karen: You graduated from a good academy, we have seen recently a surge of good painters from North-East, all highly skilled in a technical sense, so as a form of artistic expression, what sort of content should good painting contain?
Bi：I feel that the content on the canvas bearing the individual's life experience. At the same time, you also fix some things. The topic from the specific question that you focused will always have interpretation and expression. Before I think I focused mainly on concrete element, or as when I was young and learning Chinese focused on characters as the core, you focus on the formal aspects more, then feeling, after that, the creativity brought to the concrete aspects is rather less.
Karen: So, when you are deciding what elements to bring to a particular composition, what are the criteria or parameters?
Bi：When you face a specific problem, the choice of images, ways to paint, expression of space, or the mix of colours etc., all these become the elements for you to consider how to solve this problem. Recently I have primarily been interested in painting itself, regardless of the subject of a painting. It is more about getting the expression precisely as I want it.
Karen: Can you describe how you understand these fundamental aspects of painting?
Bi：In the long slow process under which painting developed, it went through many stages of change. But there are several elements which have remained constant. It is really those aspects which I find most interesting.
Karen: In this regard, we can take a look at the paintings here- Horse and Green Cloth, some of your most recent. You have here a horse that references that in a Giorgio De Chirico’s painting. The colour is rich, the brushstrokes very vibrant. There is a spirited aspect to the horse, which all suggests the accumulation of centuries of knowledge about painting. I’d like to know how you arrived at that in light of your education versus your experience. For example, what was the first work or the first series you produced after graduation.
Bi：At the beginning much of my painting was about memory. About the gulf between reality and the experiences of childhood, the beauty of those images which strongly contradicted the adult world. This has changed with my recent works. Horse and Green Cloth was recreated according to one of Giorgio De Chirico’s painting, not very representative small piece. The process created something new, where envolved both learning and beyond.
Karen: That includes the monochrome, black and white or sepia-toned works, which felt a bit like atmospheric photographs?
Bi：Yes. However, that phase did not last too long. People can’t live in the past, in memories. Also, against the reality of the outside world, to paint those things it was hard to achieve a sense of authenticity. So it was good to work through that for a time, but once I had expressed it, then there was nothing more to say really.
Karen: So that was the first phase? Howe long did it last?
Bi：About a year.
Karen: So what was the direction you took after a year?
Bi：After I graduated I discovered that my understanding of painting had changed. It was an anxious time. I found little to interest me. I painted a few animals, created a few still-lifes and studio set ups.
Karen: That was around the time of your first exhibition at Platform? It was then that you produced works like the composition with the tree with geometric boxes in its branches.
Bi：That actually came later. Before that, I spent almost a year in a state of flux.
Karen: How did you come to paint those geometric shapes?
Bi：After a time, I became less anxious. In time I had developed an approach. I realized that painting was the only thing in life that I could stick with. I still needed to identify an approach, but I could make it my job, I was certain of that.
Karen: I have a strong impression of your early works. The atmosphere, you describe as memory, whatever, it just seemed absolutely right. I felt like there was much to be uncovered in the work. You handled the black and white well, it was much more simplified by the time you came to painting the geometric shapes. The feel of the entire painting had changed, too; the brush marks were more visible. Take the painting here of the girl’s dress (that one in the corner). You painted in this fashion for a while. So when we return to the works produced in the last two years, there is a return to full rich colour. Can you talk us through this transition?
Bi：I don’t think that the change is as simple as talking about the colour. It is more about a change in attitude towards objects.
Karen: Can you say more of this? How did you evolve from one form to another? Was it a change in thought process or an instinctive change?
Bi：I was interested in my feelings towards the most mundane of objects. It was about an attitude towards not having a specific message to convey but wanting to simplify expression. It was about consciously stripping away any element that was unnecessary. To place emphasis upon fundamental elements of painting. Or, to avoid certain conventions or assumptions.
Karen: In 2011 you produced a series of this type of works which, exactly in the manner you just described, contained little sense of narrative. Here we are looking at four new works which, conversely, seem bursting with narrative elements. Is that correct?
Bi：Actually, I have no intention of leading people to find associations between elements in the paintings, elements which are totally unrelated. So if people feel that there is a narrative at work, I could say that it is because I have deliberately misled them, or don’t want them to understand these things, for they really don’t have a particular meaning.
Karen: So, you give us images that feel rather traditional in form and content, like this beautiful landscape, with the figure of a woman, which is a very established convention for traditional portraiture, to put a person in their favourite spot, and then you do strangely ambiguous with the form inside her skirt?
Bi：These works are a little different from my most recent paintings. These two are reworkings of earlier paintings, with new visual elements inserted. I am interested in revisiting traditional styles of painting, so it’s partly “copying” or “imitating”, but also a process of learning, so it’s partly about enriching my ideas.
Karen: Do you find that it is looking at others’ paintings or books or something else which gives you inspiration?
Bi：Mostly from the Internet, or from catalogues. It is quite convenient to find info from online resources nowadays. However, how will you use these resources and information. It is very dangerous if you can not ues them cleverly. The misreading of the second-hand information is there. But sometimes you may take advantage of these errors, using these fake stuff for your works.
Karen: In society today, painting is an interesting subject for discussion. InChinait is quite obvious the impact that the commercial world has had on art. Through the previous five hundred years of painting history, it is only really in the last 20 or so years that most ordinary people feel art has something to do with them. So with art being so generally popular today, everyone has access to museums, to books, to catalogues, to the Internet. But within all that information, all those images, what role does painting play?
Bi：I think that the relationship between painting and society is diminishing. One reason is the platform, the voice; another is the artist’s choice of subject. It is impossible to say that any painting is either wholly political or wholly separate from the political sphere. Artists seek to express different things. Most art is primarily related to the artist. The process of making art is without relation to society. But at the same time you can’t say that an artwork is without social nuance.
Karen: Artists live in society. It is impossible to escape that. For example, the painters around you, you communicate with them, even just over a meal, or when relaxing. You also go to see exhibitions. You have chats and discussions, what topics come up most often? I think it’s interesting to know what possibilities your generation sees in art.
Bi：There are some social communications, but everyone is very cautious when talking about paintings, so there is little things to share indeed. It’s very hard to say it’s good or not.
Karen: How do you organize your work each day? When you get to the studio, do you start work immediately or is there a period of thinking, or experimenting?
Bi：If I already have a composition prepared, then when I get to the studio I’d want to get into work mode, to prepare. It takes rather a long time to develop a painting and if I get into the mood smoothly, then I can get a great deal done. But that means I don’t get to rest much. That throws me off. For the most part, I only rest one day a week.
Karen: How long does it usually take to complete a painting?
Bi：If I have prepared well then it can go very smoothly.
Karen: Smoothly meaning one day or several days?
Bi：If the paiting is not too big then, yes, one day.
Karen: here are some works here I have not seen before. Can you talk about them a little? Are there any that have a particular story or specific elements with which you are especially pleased?
Bi：I think it’s really up to the viewer to see what they like in a work. My own understanding might not be the most realistic. From the start to the completion of a painting, after a period of time, a year perhaps, the result you had intended can appear completely different. If that’s the case, it usually means that part of the painting is not real as you intended.
Karen: In these paintings, it seems you have appropriated references to other artists. Is this deliberate? For example, there is a sense here of Li Songsong’s style, or Song Yuanyuan. You already talked about the fundamentals of painting, how you are exploring the language of painting. Are these references part of highlighting that language?
Bi：It’s an experiment. But I think that the appearance of references is normal.
Karen: What about here, this plaster bust? Wang Yin has done a series of portraits using plaster busts. Sometimes artists influence others’ thinking about fundamental questions of art. I wondered if that was the case here?
Bi：It’s not.
Karen: OK. It’s just that the changes that have taken place in your art are considerable. From this rather realist approach which has its abstract elements, through to this type of very vibrant van Gogh-style of brushstroke. It’s very different. And how do you choose the scale up which you work, which has been both small and huge?
Bi：First I think that when I paint an object, to me it is no different from painting a person—at least I approach them in exactly the same way.
Karen: Different scales have a different impact. The proportion of the mark or brush is different. How do you determine scale?
Bi：I am always experimenting, painting different things in different ways to arrive at the most appropriate combination.
Karen: So what about the work you presented atTodayArt Museum? That was huge (5 meters wide) You also painted it in very fine detail.
Bi：That was the biggest painting I have ever done. It also took a very long time. That was a moment when I was beginning to change my style. It was guided by a particular emotion at that time, some particular experiences. I was thinking about issues of painting, how to paint some “articles”; these things were rather in conflict then.
Karen: This is a new work. This seems like a new approach?
Bi：At the time I was thinking about the whole process of painting, how to present that on the canvas. The materials here (the oil paint) are part of that process, like a cell, perhaps it does not necessarily exist.
Karen: Do you paint in series? Or is each painting an individual thought process?
Bi：I used the concept of series less and less. Before yes, but not so much now.
Karen: What is the size of the works which will be presented in the exhibition?
Bi：Mid-sized mostly. Most are still-lifes or paintings of objects from daily life, but that are not often used today.
Karen: Like these ones here? (the paintings of tools)
Bi：Yes, very similar.
Karen: What is the title of the exhibition?
Bi：The Endurance Machine.
Karen: How is this image to be understood?
Bi：It comes from the title of one of my works.
Karen: Why did you choose a title from 2011 to represent this show of new works? How does that reflect your current attitude? And the direction you are moving in? Or do the works in the exhibition take their inspiration from this 2011 painting?
Bi：were produced at the same time. Following that perhaps there was a continuation, a development: the feeling in the work continues through to the present.
Karen: Similar to that feeling (points to which work?)? So this type of works (what type?) will be less?
Sun: That came out of a discussion with us. Having seen the painting The Endurance Machine, I felt it was an appropriate title in that it described the quality necessary for becoming an artist—the endurance of staying in the studio alone…but whether that endurance is importance or not can only be determined by the results.
Karen: OK, having said that, you just mentioned that you were less interested in creating series these days, and this is a completely independent composition, but for an exhibition you have to select a group of works, how do you decide which ones and how do you then hang them in relation to one another? Is it thematic? Is that relevant? Or not?
Bi：I think it’s very hard to decide. Partly Due to the significant changes in my work. Paintings clearly belong to a specific phase or time period. So perhaps by using chronology the thought process becomes clearer. Without this it will be very difficult to organize the paintings.
Karen: This would seem important, for it would allow viewers to get a step-by-step insight into what you do.
Bi：Yes, it might highlight the very different features of the paintings but it will be more accurate or real.
Karen: From the paintings we have looked at today, is there one you can point to with which you are particularly satisfied?
Bi：At any point in time, it’s always the painting that I have just finished. I really like this work (with the two plaster busts in the landscape, covered with red/blue cloth). It’s closest to the style of the compositions I have been working on recently. It is based on a small still-life painting by Courbet. The original subject was apples. I enlarged the apples, and set them around the two busts making it a focal point of the painting but one devoid of specific meaning that simply uses the original painting as a backdrop.
Karen: For the final questions, recently I have been talking with Sun Ning about various things, including the phenomenon of Wang Xingwei’s painting, a successful artist we should note. In recent years, from his distinctive beginnings as a painter, constantly exploring issues of painting, art history specifically in the early works, through a rich range of topics, always with his own style and character, yet in the recent works, those of the old lady and the flower pots, it seems it is no longer possible to take a single work as an independent work—or as independent of a group of works produced during a particular phase of thought. No matter for a collector or for a museum, it is hard to respond to an isolated work. Is this the case with your paintings? Of course they are all well-painted but do they require the context of other works in order for the viewer to make sense of what it is you are trying to say?
Bi：my paintings were definitely all separate, individual, even if part of a series. But more recent works each composition is totally separate from another. The impact, the feel of each work is different. But if you look back over all the different types of paintings I have produced, you might think they were all produced by different artist.
Karen: That’s not exactly what I meant. If we start from Wang Xingwei, as example, we find with many Dongbei artists a refusal of traditional or conventional painting elements. They are not trying to create ugly works or “bad” painting, but are refusing conventional aesthetics, so the question is really how to define aesthetics in painting today? To read a painting we have several options: its visual appeal or its narrative qualities. If both are negated, then what is it we are to take from the painting?
Bi：I think narrative as you used the term has two meanings. First it might not be a primary feature of the painting. Beauty is the most obvious standard. An artist has to put forward a new standard, to break with the convention. It’s necessary. It doesn’t matter if other people get it or not. If everyone is able to accept a painting immediately, or finds it comfortable to look at, then that is something else: not necessarily what an artist does or I am seeking.
Karen: This painting is close to that approach (the horse). It has a life force. You other paintings are rather still, quiet, but this is active. It exudes a powerful feeling. Are there only two such paintings?
Bi：I have many ideas in mind, but when you are dealing with such familiar elements, after a time it is very easy to lose feeling, to become numb. That’s not always helpful, beneficial. But that’s also not to say it’s not good. I think it has to do with my character.
Karen: How would you describe your character?
Bi：Impressionable perhaps. When I am confronted by a large volume of information, my ability to deflect this information is not well developed. It’s the same in my daily life.
Karen: During the access of painting, like what you have mentioned, you just paint with the arranged bottle or with the photo of it?
Bi：Some are painted direct from photographs. Some I set up in the studio and photograph, but most are from photographs.
Karen: In a composition like this (which one?) is the reason you cut the image off here because that was the edge of the photo?
Bi：Photos provide a feeling and inspiration not a specific composition.
Karen: Just now, talking about values, about the values you ascribe to art, where does beauty fit in? It’s obvious that you paint extremely well. But in the cause of content, I am not sure from what angle to adjudge the works. How to appreciate the works? In terms of traditional aesthetics, or of still-life painting, there were many conventions about how the elements were arranged. I guess you are rebutting the convention, yet there is no sign of a violent objection, if you like. The paintings are beautifully managed, very precise. I understand other of your works, but these remain puzzling.
Bi：I thought that if I painted some familiar objects, I needed to imbue them with a commonly understood aura. I want them to feel utterly mundane. In that sense they have no relation to photographs at all. These are all old things—these watches are old, broken. These bags are all secondhand. They feel more like studies of objects.
Karen: Did you paint the ducks from a photo?
Bi：Yes.
Karen: This common feeling in the early works—you might call it memory or nostalgia—made for a strong series of paintings. There was a great sense of ambiguity about the paintings: a sense that something had happened in the places you painted. They are paintings that can be viewed for a long time, again and again, for each viewing brings something new. That is different from the more recent paintings which fell as if they can be taken in at one single glance. Nothing can happen in these compositions.
Bi：To this point, of all my early paintings, I still rather like this one (Princess) It took more than two months. I thought about making a frame for the canvas and about separating the image into separate panels, but then decided it was not important for me to concern myself with: the painting had to be one piece. That’s what felt right.
Karen: How did you come to paint this? (WHAT?)
Bi：I was feeling very pessimistic at that time. So at that time random elements were introduced into the paintings. Too random perhaps, but I wanted to force a change, no matter if I progress or regress.
Karen: Because you paint well, it doesn’t really matter what approach you use, they all come out well. No matter what happens, change is important. Especially for a young artist. I think it’s great that you feel free to do whatever comes into your mind. It makes for good experience, and perhaps leads to greater clarity.
Bi：In the process of making this painting (WHICH?) and the horse, despite the fact I used the same image as inspiration, the paintings feel very different. That one is very small, sosmall. When I expanded it many times bigger, I was faced with many difficulties. But it came out really well in the end.